Kevin Nye is our guest disrupter on this episode of Compass and he is going to share how advocating for the unhoused provides a window of opportunity for seeing a bit more clearly the movement of God-inspired justice in the world. We’re going to learn a bit about how advocating for those experiencing homelessness draws us into an awareness of God’s action in and around us.
Kevin Nye works in advocacy and homeless services… now in Minnesota. He is the author of the book: “Grace Can Lead Us Home: A Christian Call to End Homelessness.” He also writes on the intersections of theology, justice and equity, and pop culture.
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Kevin Nye's book, Grace Can Lead Us Home, is an inspiring and practical read for advocating for the unhoused.
Kevin draws a lot of personal inspiration from the writings of Walter Brueggemann. Some of Brueggemann's most referred to books include:
Ryan Dunn (00:01):
This is the Compass podcast, where we disrupt our everyday experiences with divine moments.
Here's a situation for you. You're leaving church or a restaurant. And as you make your way to the car, you notice someone milling about at the fringe of the parking lot. This person also notices you and starts walking towards you. As he approaches. You noticed he's a bit disheveled. His clothes are worn as if he's been in them for quite a while. The context clues are that this is a person in some kind of need. What's running through your head. What's your strategy of response in this moment.
New Speaker (00:37):
Kevin Nye is our guest disruptor on this episode of Compass. And he's gonna share how such encounters are windows of opportunity for seeing a bit more clearly the movement of God inspired justice in the world. We're gonna learn a bit about how advocating for those experiencing homelessness draws us into an awareness of God's action in and around us.
Ryan Dunn (01:00):
Kevin Nye works in advocacy and homeless services. Now in Minnesota, he's the author of the book. Grace can lead us home, a Christian call to end homelessness. He also writes on the intersections of theology, justice, and equity and pop culture. And yet we're gonna get into some of that too. And if you're watching the video of this episode, you'll see why right off the bat. This is a revealing conversation about our attitudes around the unhoused and how we can be better ambassadors in experiences of God's grace. So listen for these revelations in our conversation with Kevin I, Kevin, and I thank you so much for joining us on the compass podcast. How goes is it with your soul today, Kevin?
Kevin Nye (01:46):
It's, it's pretty, pretty good. I should say I my family and I just recovered from our second round of COVID, so oh, okay. Glad to be. Yeah. Glad to be back in, in the world, little residual, you know, congestion and scratchy throat. So you might hear that if you're really, really good listening,
Ryan Dunn (02:05):
If you're really yeah. Did so the whole family got it.
Kevin Nye (02:09):
Yeah. Yeah. We kind of, we all get it together. <Laugh>
Ryan Dunn (02:13):
Get it. The family that I guess stays together really stays together. I hear it.
Kevin Nye (02:18):
Ryan Dunn (02:20):
Well, we've been spurred to this conversation and through the book that you've written and you open that one in starting with a story of that. I think we can all relate to it's one of being approached by an individual who is apparently dealing with homelessness. Like all the context clues are kind of there and you go through your internal dialogue of what you're gonna do and this person gets up it. Can you explain for us a little bit, like what made this particular situation that you shared an aha moment for you?
Kevin Nye (02:52):
Hmm. Well, what's interesting is it, it wasn't an aha moment until much later when I was thinking about it, which I think I say in the book is kind of a through line for my life is that I have very significant moments and don't realize them until much later. Yeah.
Ryan Dunn (03:06):
Several weeks later you're like, man, that really was something. Yeah.
Kevin Nye (03:10):
Yeah. <Laugh> I, I think it was, it was even not until I was writing the book and I was like, what's a significant moment in my life that I could write about. It's like, oh, duh. And so yeah, the, the context of that particular interaction was that I was, was leaving early from a church gathering of my denomination, where they were it's a service they hold every year to celebrate those who are being ordained. They, you know, go through that official process and everyone collapsed. And and earlier that year I had stepped away from the ordination process and that was a really hard decision and a really long, difficult journey. But you know, ultimately ended up being the best thing, but also came with a lot of, a lot of hurt. And so I was attending that survey service I left early.
Kevin Nye (04:04):
And at that time I had already been working in in homelessness services for about six months and had started to kind of see it as, oh, maybe this is, you know, my career, this is what I'm going to be doing instead of ordained ministry. And so as I was leaving that service there was a gentleman in the parking lot who very clearly to me was experiencing homelessness and, and probably some form of mental illness who, who approached me and, and we had a conversation. And again, like, this is reflecting on it now is such an aha moment. Like I was, I was leaving as literally standing in between the streets and, and the church having this interaction. Yeah. That sort of signified the two parts of my life that at that time felt like they were kind of competing or in some sort of dialogue for, for my identity and my, my future. And you know, and I finished the conversation. I, I went home and I literally thought nothing of it until months later,
Ryan Dunn (05:13):
You used a word there that I want to touch on. And we did a whole episode. You're on the compass podcast about how much words matter, why med words matter with Jonathan Merritt and you point out that we should be particular about the ways that in which we refer to the homeless in the unhoused or persons actually, as you put at persons experiencing homelessness, why do we need to watch how we, how we use that reference homeless?
Kevin Nye (05:45):
Yeah. Yeah. I think we should be mindful about the language that we use and what's what's happening in, in our minds and kind of in our souls when we use it. I don't, I don't go so far as to tell people what to use. And part of that is because, you know, the, the phrase that's falling out of common vocabulary is referring to people just as homeless or homeless person. But the people that I still hear using that the most often are people who are experiencing homelessness. Okay. and they seem far less concerned about the language by and large. So for that reason, I don't, you know, I don't police other people's use of, of those words. But I use different words for particular reasons that I've learned from some others. And that's, I'll use people experiencing homelessness because that's person first language.
Kevin Nye (06:42):
Okay. it denotes, it denotes an experience that a person is going through rather than kind of an identity marker of who they are. Also can kind of connotes that, you know, it could be a temporary experience rather than a permanent identity. And then I'll also use unhoused instead of homeless and while they really do the same thing in a lot of ways, I think that homeless has been in our vocabulary for so long and has been so associated with particular stereotypes and tropes that using a word like unhoused, even though it means largely the same thing, kind of just, you know, jogs our brain loose a little bit from that that stereotype and causes us to just think a little bit differently.
Ryan Dunn (07:34):
Yeah. It, it, it does feel disruptive in a way that we get, so I, I guess almost there's so much stereotype attached to the phrase homeless person, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative> but a person who is experiencing homelessness or even the unhoused interrupts that, that cycle a little bit, we begin to, to remove some of those connotations that we've held onto before. So is that really, what, what lays it on for you and why you lean into those, those particular phrases?
Kevin Nye (08:04):
Yeah, exactly. And, and also for me, unhoused is different than homeless because homeless sort of frames a home as, you know, a possession mm-hmm <affirmative> or, or, or a commodity that someone should be with, or without, rather than when you say unhoused, it sort of speaks of housing as a verb. Which I think more connotes housing as something that we, we owe to people within, you know a society.
Ryan Dunn (08:36):
Hmm. Talk to us a little bit about that. You, you mentioned that housing is, is a right, not just a, a luxury or something that, that we earn. Was there a framework that kind of inspired that thought process for you?
Kevin Nye (08:50):
Yeah I mean, so in homeless services, we, we talked about a methodology called housing first. And that, that is the belief that the, the way to end homelessness is with the home. Right. And it sounds so simple. And yet for so long, we've practiced this particular methodology where people have to gradually earn their way toward being housed. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and that's through, you know, compliance with rules or a particular treatment program, or they have to essentially prove how much they deserve to be in the house. <Laugh> right. Housing first does the opposite. It says, we're going to put you in housing first that then we're going to surround you with the supportive services that you need to accomplish a lot of those same things, whether it's, you know, treatment for substance use or mental illness, or help in finding a job that actually housing a place to call home that, and the intrinsic safety that, that provides that provides a baseline where people can actually, you know, accomplish those things and, and move toward flourishing in their lives.
Ryan Dunn (10:02):
So in that housing first mentality is for you, Kevin, was that spurred by practicality or was that mentality housing first spurred by your faith?
Kevin Nye (10:15):
I mean, it's, it's both all at the same time. I think I, I latched onto it immediately because of, because of my faith and because I, you know, I have been so moved and, and convicted by, you know, the grace of God and the justice of God. And really the, the words of, of the prophets who, you know, are super clear about how we, how we treat people. And, and frankly, the Bible has a lot to say about property ownership and land that we tend to over spiritualize. But that actually is pretty nitty gritty about who's who's the land is and how land should be returned to people after they've lost it and how it should be allocated fairly. And so, yeah, the, the notion that, you know, people should be offered an opportunity to flourish, not based on whether they prove that they're worthy of it, but simply because every person deserves that baseline of, of care absolutely speaks to me as a person of faith.
Ryan Dunn (11:26):
Well, I wanna take you back to that moment in the parking lot. And I guess that story just connected with me so much, because I've been there and even feeling that, that moment of indecision, when you see that person approaching, you know, that they're gonna have a request and you'd love to be able to help, but there's a, there's that gawing feeling that voice in your mind that says I can't do anything right. That yeah. Reflects the scarcity mindset. You're writing reflects very much an abundant mindset, a, a mindset of abundance. What has inspired your abundance mindset?
Kevin Nye (12:04):
Yeah. I mean, again, it's my faith commitments and especially the writings of Walter Brueggemann have really shaped my my beliefs about abundance and scarcity. And Breuggemann is so good about really like getting you to this very spiritual level of talking about how, you know, God, you know, when God creates and when God God gives, there's always enough. There's, there's always enough to go around. There's not a shortage. The shortage comes when we, you know, fail to allocate it in adjust an equitable way where certain people seize more than what is rightfully theirs. Right. and for me, like that is, it's very apparent to me every day, because I work in this field that we do have a scarcity of a lot of resources. I think that scarcity is manufactured, but it is one that I still have to work within.
Kevin Nye (13:07):
Right. Yeah. And at the same time, there are certain resources that we don't often consider resources that, that we do have an abundance. And I think when we talk about things like community and relationship and, and grace and, and love and care, like these are things that we, we do have an abundance of. And so often when we are entering those conversations the one in the parking lot, for example he ended, he didn't end up asking us for anything. Okay. He, he talked to us for a while. And then when, you know, when I moved to, to cut off the conversation he just went on his way. And, and that doesn't surprise me cuz that happens a lot where folks do just want to talk and that's not to say like that you're not gonna get asked for something in the midst of that or cuz I mean, if I were in that position, I, and I was having a good conversation with someone and I needed money, I might drop that in the conversation too, you know? But I do think that, you know, regardless of whether we are, you know, willing or able to offer those tangible resources in a conversation like that, we do still have a lot to offer.
Ryan Dunn (14:28):
Well, tell us a little bit about how the scarcity mindset is manufactured as you mentioned.
Kevin Nye (14:35):
Yeah. Well I think for example, you know what we talk about this housing first model versus the sort of prove, prove you're worth model. We, we spend as a country and as individual communities, so much money to just maintain homelessness exactly the way it is, whether that's, you know, spending money on cleanups, on policing, on incarcerating people for crimes that we have invented to sort of police homelessness, right? Whether it's loitering or shopping, having a shopping cart or sleeping on a sidewalk, these are all laws like crimes that we've invented to, to make being homelessness harder or punishable. Right. and then we, we have to pay to enforce those. We have to pay people, we have to pay courts to process them. We have to pay jails and prisons to, you know, house people who break them too many times. We pay a lot of money for the healthcare for folks who are sleeping outside in all of the, the disease and wounds and things that come from that hard life.
Kevin Nye (15:51):
You know, we overall, we end up spending a lot of money to not house people. Yeah. And when we actually have taken the time to study, what would happen if we just house them instead, the money ends up being either equal or we end up saving money by housing people. And so that's just one way of talking about like we have, we think that there's a scarcity, like, oh, who's gonna pay for it. How are we gonna afford to house all these people? It's like, well actually we're, we're spending a lot to just keep doing things the same way. And it's, it's a scarcity of, of imagination and it's a scarcity of believing that people are worth investing in, in that way.
Ryan Dunn (16:37):
It, the story that sticks out to me is one that you shared through Malcolm Gladwell about a million dollar person. And then it costs a million dollars to really support this person, experiencing a homelessness. And it would certainly cost a lot less to actually provide a, a home for that person. And mm-hmm <affirmative>, that was a light bulb moment for me. It, you also share in your book that in 2018 in Los Angeles you had a bang up here in 21,000 people were, were provided homes, but on the flip side there was something, I, my numbers may be off here, but something like 54,000 people who were, who were lost homes, moved into homelessness.
Kevin Nye (17:23):
Ryan Dunn (17:24):
Does it in terms of your work what does that do to your mindset? I mean, how does it feel to, you know, as one pastor put it, it feels like hell is winning. Do you feel like hell is winning in a situation like that?
Kevin Nye (17:41):
I do. And you know, we, we talked before we started recording about what brought me from Los Angeles to now living in Minneapolis. Mm. I, I do think that I lost a lot of hope in Los Angeles over the last three or four years. Mm. When I first got into this work in 2016, we passed a couple really crucial ballot measures to provide housing and then support it with a lot of money for services. And then I just, over the next several years, watch that money kind of get, get squandered or, or get spent working really hard, but to try to go against the system that was to big. And, and like you said, we were in 2018 and 2019 and 2020, we housed more people than ever before in those three years, like year after year. And yet more people were experiencing homelessness for the first time, every single one of those years, too. And so at, in one sense, like, God help us if we hadn't housed. Yeah. All of those people, because then the numbers would've just been astronomical, but, you know, we need, we need a complete renovation of, of how we understand housing, especially in somewhere that's as expensive as Los Angeles. And that has been really largely a housing market. That's been really commoditized and, and corporatized and made unsustainable.
Ryan Dunn (19:19):
So what inspires you to keep going then? Are there practices that you utilize personally to kind of refresh your soul for this work?
Kevin Nye (19:28):
Yeah. I'm moving across the country. Okay. <Laugh> <laugh> no, it it did not
Ryan Dunn (19:34):
Maybe a one shot deal.
Kevin Nye (19:36):
Yeah. Not, not something super replicable. No, I think you know, I, I write about this in the book that at the moment, the times when I get just a little too overwhelmed by the enormity of it, I, I go small. And that either means that maybe I've spent too much time reading news articles or behind my computer doing like the big work. And I need to just go spend some time like eating a meal or taking coffee or being in community with, with people <laugh> yeah. With the people that we're talking about. And that was built into my last job in a way that was just kind of who we are. It was our core identity that we were always holding that communal space. And like, there was a time every day called coffee hour where we, like the only the only business we were about was hanging out and drinking coffee during that hour.
Kevin Nye (20:41):
Now I took a lot to run that behind the scenes. Sure. And I don't want to gloss over that, but there's, there are plenty of opportunities during that to just kind of stop and say, no, I don't have to do anything right now. Like my job is to have this conversation. Mm. My job is to hang out at this blackjack table and, and get to know these guys. And currently at my job, I'm, I'm finding new ways. I'm a little more on the administrative side at this job. So I have to seek it out a little more. But there's there's a, a young lady that lives in one of our housing complexes that is always hanging out in the lobby that I know at any time, if I need to, I can go challenger to a game of Yachty
Ryan Dunn (21:30):
<Laugh> right on.
Kevin Nye (21:31):
And, and that's just, that's just a way of resetting, you know, that this is about, this is about people. And my, my, my job is not to end homelessness, like on a broad scale. My job is to, you know, do what's in front of me, you know, love the people in front of me, position myself in a way that can be in community and, and of service to the people in my immediate circle.
Ryan Dunn (21:59):
Mm that's good. So it it's in those relationships, even that you're able to celebrate the win so to speak.
Kevin Nye (22:06):
Yeah. And, and to see, you know, see smaller things as wins. And I think, again, that's a, can I say smaller, you know, with quotation marks around it, but that it gets back to that abundance versus scarcity mindset. Like, I, I think that as much as I want to see the numbers go in the other direction and homelessness to get smaller, like even that can, can become its own form of scarcity and, and sell, trying to celebrate or only pay attention to the numbers and not to, you know, to people and quality of life and to see, you know, to, to watch a person come out of their shell or watch a person take a step that for them is huge, but doesn't like check a box on a, a government outcomes form, you know? Yeah. that's the type of stuff that I think an abundance mindset opens you up to, and that you only get, if you can kind of slow down and, and take in the, the relationship aspect of it,
Ryan Dunn (23:05):
You relate a lot of the St back to stories of Jesus. And oftentimes it it's in a, a point of view that I had not considered before. Are, is there a particular story of Jesus that you feel inspires the abundance mindset, or even that you just go back to as a sense or a source of, of strength for the work that you've been called to do?
Kevin Nye (23:31):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah, there's definitely a couple. And there's a, a chapter at the end of my book. That's about abundance and scarcity and the two, the two stories I, I really highlight of Jesus and that are when he turns water into wine at the, the wedding at Kana. Mm. And then the feeding of the 5,000. And those are two stories that are about abundance to me, because I mean the first one, you know, turning water into wine at a party is not meeting a, you know, an immediate need <laugh> of, you know, like, right. That's
Ryan Dunn (24:11):
Like, seems so
Kevin Nye (24:13):
Yeah. Wine at a party is not on Maslow's hierarchy. Right. And
Ryan Dunn (24:19):
Kevin Nye (24:19):
Yeah. And, and yet, you know, joy community celebration, like that's, again, if we get out of that scarcity mindset that says, like, people just, we just need to like check off boxes, get the numbers, like, no, like celebrating in community is one of the best joys that, that we have. And then the, the story of feeding the 5,000, I think there's such a great detail of that story is that there's just so much left over that out of what seemed like scarcity, there's actually more than enough. And, you know, if I feel like if there were, if Jesus were under a, a government contract for, for that story, he would've definitely made sure that there was only enough just for everyone to have a slightly full stomach. Yeah. You know, and they
Ryan Dunn (25:15):
Were gonna be prerequisites for them to earn it right. As well.
Kevin Nye (25:18):
Yes, exactly. Because if there's some leftover, then he's not gonna get as much money for the next contract. Right. and I also, I tied that story back to cuz that story echos so much the, the man and the wilderness and exo is. And my favorite detail in that story is that the man is described as having a sweet taste like honey. And I just, I love that detail because like, if, if God is providing this sustenance in the desert for people to get by, like there's no nutritional value of making it honey <laugh> or like adding a sweetness to it. And yet I just imagine that that was that again, that's just speaks to, but God abundance, that's like, I'm not just giving you what you need to survive. I'm giving you something to enjoy.
Ryan Dunn (26:11):
Mm. Yeah. And that's really kind of the message of, of grace. Is it not that it is so on a personal level, it can be so, and abundant is not the right word. It can be overwhelming or extravagant is probably the word that I'm looking for. It just feels like it is, is so much. Do you sometimes in your work of offering care personally for people, is it regular to hear people complain that you're just being too extra, providing too extravagant attention to individuals?
Kevin Nye (26:54):
I don't think I've ever gotten that accusation now. Okay. I think, I mean, I think that that it's, or if that, if I do, it's sort of framed as like, again, coming back to this idea of what people deserve, right? Yeah. Or, or like, wouldn't that money be better spent, you know, doing this. And obviously it's important to, you know, steward resource as well. And I wouldn't, you know, want to, like, you buy everyone in Armani suit instead of an apartment. Right. It was like lines and stuff, but, you know, I think that it's so important as, as humans in community to, to celebrate and to have, have joy. And I tell a story and in the book, a couple of stories, one about making avocado toast for a bunch of our, our women on women's day, because it was that week a few years ago where all this discourse came out about how millennials need to stop eating avocado toast so they can afford to buy houses.
Kevin Nye (27:58):
And again, that just got really got me that riled up, cuz it's this whole scarcity and abundance thing that is so disconnected from reality and truth. But that was really just trying to say like, Hey, you millennials don't deserve to have nice things <laugh>. Mm. And so, yeah, so I said to heck with that, I'm gonna make avocado toast and serve it to, to people experiencing homelessness this week. That was like my way of, you know, countering that narrative. And then another story I tell is about a, a party that, that we started doing every year that, you know, it wasn't related to a holiday. It wasn't anything other than just say that everyone deserves to have a party. And we got like taco catering, live music, photo booth, confetti sent out invitations and just invited everyone experiencing homelessness in Hollywood to come to a party in the morning on a Thursday in Hollywood. And it was always my favorite time of the year. And again, just based on this idea that every community needs, you know, rhythms of, of celebration and joy, that's part of what makes us human it's what, how religions and families like gather and measure time, you know, it's, it's just an essential core thing of, of, of, of humanity. And, and it's something that when you do have an opportunity to extend it to people who are often not on the guest list, you, you truly see how, how important it is.
Ryan Dunn (29:45):
Yeah. And so much of that stuff comes without terms. And I think that's what I was trying to get at with the, the idea of extravaga grace is that it is something that comes without terms and prerequisites mm-hmm <affirmative> right. And you seem to be a big proponent for offering assistance without a, a ton of terms on it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> can you can you speak to the people who have a different mindset, a little bit to the naysayers, to that? Why is it so important to you to offer assistance without heavy duty terms attached to it?
Kevin Nye (30:21):
Yeah. I mean, a couple reasons. I mean, one from the practical side, it doesn't work.
Kevin Nye (30:28):
People, people don't change because they're, you know, forced to, or coerced to people, people change because, because they want to, and they change in the, into who they want to become. And I think that I'm gonna keep coming back to scarcity. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I think it's a scarcity mindset that says that people don't want to change. They want to be miserable. I think if we really dig down to it, that that doesn't make sense. Right. There's I don't think there's any person on this earth who doesn't want tomorrow to be a little better than today, you know who doesn't hope for something more in their life. And I think ultimately when we, we look at people who are experiencing homelessness and we say, you know, they, they want to be that way or they deserve to be that way.
Kevin Nye (31:32):
And we need to find some way to hold, hold something that they need hostage to get them to do something that we want them to do. When, and it, and it doesn't work like statistically, it does not, it does not prove the desired outcome and even worse when it doesn't work, we blame it on them rather than blaming the method. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but when you do offer people without, like you said, without prerequisite, something like a home that provides that stability and safety it gives people the opportunity to flourish on their own terms. And you rather than saying like, okay, now I got you this house. Now you owe it to me to do all of these things you say, Hey, you know, now that you're getting good sleep, now that you have a, a safe place to call home, what do you wanna do next?
Kevin Nye (32:31):
And how can I help? You know? And again, it's, it's believing in people that people want to flourish. People want to take that next step, and we may not agree with what that next step is. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But I, I would challenge any of us to look back at our life and ask ourselves if we went exactly the most efficient route to get where we are right now. And if we truly did everything and exactly the right order, that would make sense to us now, you know people need opportunities to, to do life on their terms and, and to have, have partnership and support in doing that.
Ryan Dunn (33:14):
Well, we've been wax and theological and I can't help, but notice the wall of Spiderman behind you. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> is there a Marvel character or storyline that you find to be like a really good platform for theological themes?
Kevin Nye (33:28):
Gosh, I'm, I'm always watching, watching movies and reading stuff with a eye toward that. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, it's just like I, when I started working in homelessness and it was like, how can I put this into conversation that I've always been doing that with movies, which were sort of my first love. And yeah, I'm a huge superhero fan. The Marvel movies, I think are a ton of fun. I think the Dr. Strange is perhaps the most interesting one theologically and it didn't surprise me when I found out the director of that was a biolo grad. Okay.
Ryan Dunn (34:01):
<Laugh> I didn't know. Cause
Kevin Nye (34:03):
To movie that, to me, that movie is really wrestling with, you know, religious fundamentalism. Mm. And you know, in Dr. Strange's world it's what do you do with this magic? Do you use it to bet to, to help yourself? Do you follow these rigid rules to a T so much that you become a villain? Do you flippantly use them to, to give yourself more power? Yeah, very much. You, you can tell, especially after you know that about the director, like, oh, this is a storyteller, what? The storytelling they're wrestling with a, a religious upbringing
Ryan Dunn (34:44):
Right on, all right. I'm gonna have to go back and review now. Haven't just seen multiverse madness, not too long ago. Like you can even see it at working there now. I don't even know if that's the same director, but it's not okay. But that theme is still there about the legal
Kevin Nye (34:58):
Absolutely. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>
Ryan Dunn (34:59):
It's present. Wow. Well, you've just fairly recently made a transition to a new space to live in what's next for you. Mm-Hmm
Kevin Nye (35:09):
<Affirmative> you know, I'm, I'm settling in. Yeah. And I'm, I'm enjoying the moment. You know, my book just came out, it's less, less than a month old. And, you know, I have ideas about what I want to write next, but, but right now I'm just, I'm enjoying the heck out of people, reading, reading the book and, and writing to me and telling me how they're interacting with it. And and I'm enjoying eating a bunch of new food and, and new city and visiting, visiting as many lakes as I can and all that good stuff,
Ryan Dunn (35:42):
You know, every place seems to have their kind of specialized local cuisine. I'm in Nashville, Tennessee. And we have our own version of barbecue here. While we have hot chicken here in the Nashville, hot chicken. What is Minnesotas dish of choice?
Kevin Nye (35:59):
Gosh, that's a good question. Yeah, I haven't figured that out yet. I did go to the Minnesota state fair. Yeah. and tried a lot of those delicacies, a lot of different things that are on a stick.
Ryan Dunn (36:12):
Kevin Nye (36:14):
But yeah, so maybe that's it.
Ryan Dunn (36:18):
<Laugh> okay. All right. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for spending this time with us. Thank you so much, even more for the work that you're doing and for being able to, and willing to share your perspectives with those of us who have questions about it. So it's incredibly valuable. And and the book I, I think, is gonna open a lot of eyes and it certainly has provided a lot of inspiration for me. So thank you for that as well. Again, a good spot to catch up with Kevin is kevinmnye.com and "Nye" is N-Y-E. My name is Ryan Dunn. If you'd like to catch up with me in all things, compass, check out Umc.org/compass. A couple episodes you might wanna check out while you're there that coincide well with this episode include "believing you can make a difference" with street chaplain, Lindsay Krinks, who is also a friend of Kevin's and "a fresh look at radical Jesus" with Damon Garcia, that episode will get you good and fired up for seeking more actions of justice. Thank you to the good people at United Methodist communications for making this podcast possible. And we are well into a new season of fresh episodes. So we'll have another fresh disruption for your day today in two weeks, in the meantime, peace to you.